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The World Today - Violence breaks out in Dili after Alkatiri sends televised message
[This is the print version of story http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2006/s1673792.htm]
The World Today - Wednesday, 28 June , 2006 12:18:00
Reporter: Peter Cave
ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: There's been a sudden sharp upsurge in violence in the East Timorese Capital Dili after former Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri went on television urging his supporters from the east of the country to converge peacefully on Dili in the coming days.
He also accused his critics of destroying Dili, burning, looting and killing, and claimed he'd been labelled a terrorist, a communist and a killer.
I've been joined on the line from Dili by Foreign Affairs Editor Peter Cave.
Peter, Mari Alkitiri's language when he resigned was fairly quiet, respectful to the President and dignified. What has been the tone of his rhetoric since then, out on the streets?
(Sounds of people shouting)
PETER CAVE: I'm right in the middle of a riot at the moment, the big refugee camp in front of the port where Brigadier Slater has his headquarters. A group mainly from the west have converged on this refugee camp, they've converged on this refugee camp and they're throwing rocks at the moment.
Australian troops are trying to hold them back. They have successfully done that in the last few minutes, but this is the result of the sort of rhetoric we saw from Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri last night on television.
ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: Well, Peter, does this feel like just a spike of violence, or is there a real risk that the political vacuum is going to be filled by such incidents?
PETER CAVE: Well, it's developing as we speak. I mean, this is a particularly nasty incident, this is right in the middle of town, you've got Australian soldiers trying to force back a mob throwing large rocks, some of them the size of half a brick, into this refugee camp which is mainly people from the East.
Overnight we've had 20 houses burnt down, the houses of three leaders of the Fretilin movement, one of them were set ablaze this morning while I was there, we've had drive-by shootings and it's been quite an intense spike of violence, and it's something I asked Brigadier Slater, the commander of Australian troops about when I spoke to him a short while ago.
MICK SLATER: There is every chance that the two groups will come together. In fact, the leadership of each of these groups have already been talking. They know each other well and they are very interested in having a peaceful demonstration.
There may be individuals who would like to see violence but the majority of the protesters and those who are organising the protests, they want a peaceful demonstration.
PETER CAVE: The former Prime Minister spoke to the demonstrators last night. His words caused an outbreak of violence last night.
MICK SLATER: I'm not exactly sure what he said. He spoke to groups in the vicinity of Hera and Metinaro, and I understand he also made a separate announcement on television last night.
It depends who you speak to what interpretation you get of the message he was sending.
He did say yesterday afternoon, I believe, that those who were moving towards town should go back, spend the night in the eastern areas and be prepared to come in today with a larger number.
I'm not concerned about the number and I'm not concerned about their intentions.
The rise in violence last night, we had nine fires in town, there were two cases of drive-by shooting - one on a motorbike, I'm not sure what vehicle the other group used, and we had four large gangs that were out in the town.
It started around about 9 pm, it was all quiet, we were on top of it by about 0100 this morning. I don't think that we are going to see a return to what was here a month ago.
PETER CAVE: You don't think we're entering a more dangerous phase now?
MICK SLATER: I think every day around here is dangerous, not so much dangerous on the streets - the security situation, I think, is well in hand - the dangers that I see are the political dangers.
I'm not a political commentator but I am concerned that every day it takes to get a resolution, then we are getting into a more dangerous political situation, and it's the politics that are driving things here.
PETER CAVE: Does the fact that the former Prime Minister faces prosecutors on Friday present a security problem for you?
MICK SLATER: I'm not aware that the former Prime Minister is going to face prosecutors on Friday. I really am relying on people like yourself...
PETER CAVE: ... well, that's what the prosecutors told us yesterday.
MICK SLATER: Well, I haven't spoken to the prosecutors. I know they have been talking for some time about the prospect of charges. I would not be surprised if on Saturday though, we are talking about what may happen on Monday.
ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: That's Australian Commander, Brigadier Mick Slater. And Peter, the commander there said that we won't be coming back to violence. He's obviously wrong.
(Sounds of protesters shouting).
PETER CAVE: Well, I'm standing probably about a hundred meters from where I spoke to him just earlier this morning to record that interview, and as I said, his soldiers are now trying to push back a mob of about a hundred people who've attacked this refugee camp which is right outside his headquarters.
They put it there for safety, the soldiers have at this stage forced them back, but they are showing no signs of dispersing and they're showing every sign of trying to go back and have another go at the refugees.
(Sounds of protesters shouting).
ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: And Peter, we can hear what's happening in the background. Can you just describe, is this violence getting worse as we speak?
PETER CAVE: As we speak, the soldiers are trying to push this mob back. They've pushed them probably 15 meters back from the edge of the refugee camp, but the group are still trying to get through.
The soldiers are remaining fairly calm, they haven't got their weapons drawn, they haven't got batons drawn, they just are pushing them back with gestures and words at the moment. But it was a very nasty incident. There have been similar incidents in the Kamoro area down near the bridge there.
There have been similar incidents in the middle of town and also out near the airport where there's another refugee camp. Most of these people in refugee camps now are from the east and they've become a target of these mobs because of what Mr Alkatiri said on television last night.
ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: And Peter, is there any sign that perhaps the refugees will have to be evacuated?
PETER CAVE: Not at this stage, it hasn't reached that stage yet. This... as I said, we've got about a hundred people here, there were perhaps two or three hundred elsewhere, but as you heard Brigadier Slater say earlier, he's preparing to let a large group of protesters, maybe three or four thousand, in from (inaudible).
If they come in and the numbers of these people swell and they don't, as Brigadier Slater hopes, remain peaceful, it could be a very nasty situation.
ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: Peter Cave in Dili, thank you.
He also accused his critics of destroying Dili, burning, looting and killing, and claimed he'd been labelled a terrorist, a communist and a killer.
I've been joined on the line from Dili by Foreign Affairs Editor Peter Cave.
Peter, Mari Alkitiri's language when he resigned was fairly quiet, respectful to the President and dignified. What has been the tone of his rhetoric since then, out on the streets?
(Sounds of people shouting)
PETER CAVE: I'm right in the middle of a riot at the moment, the big refugee camp in front of the port where Brigadier Slater has his headquarters. A group mainly from the west have converged on this refugee camp, they've converged on this refugee camp and they're throwing rocks at the moment.
Australian troops are trying to hold them back. They have successfully done that in the last few minutes, but this is the result of the sort of rhetoric we saw from Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri last night on television.
ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: Well, Peter, does this feel like just a spike of violence, or is there a real risk that the political vacuum is going to be filled by such incidents?
PETER CAVE: Well, it's developing as we speak. I mean, this is a particularly nasty incident, this is right in the middle of town, you've got Australian soldiers trying to force back a mob throwing large rocks, some of them the size of half a brick, into this refugee camp which is mainly people from the East.
Overnight we've had 20 houses burnt down, the houses of three leaders of the Fretilin movement, one of them were set ablaze this morning while I was there, we've had drive-by shootings and it's been quite an intense spike of violence, and it's something I asked Brigadier Slater, the commander of Australian troops about when I spoke to him a short while ago.
MICK SLATER: There is every chance that the two groups will come together. In fact, the leadership of each of these groups have already been talking. They know each other well and they are very interested in having a peaceful demonstration.
There may be individuals who would like to see violence but the majority of the protesters and those who are organising the protests, they want a peaceful demonstration.
PETER CAVE: The former Prime Minister spoke to the demonstrators last night. His words caused an outbreak of violence last night.
MICK SLATER: I'm not exactly sure what he said. He spoke to groups in the vicinity of Hera and Metinaro, and I understand he also made a separate announcement on television last night.
It depends who you speak to what interpretation you get of the message he was sending.
He did say yesterday afternoon, I believe, that those who were moving towards town should go back, spend the night in the eastern areas and be prepared to come in today with a larger number.
I'm not concerned about the number and I'm not concerned about their intentions.
The rise in violence last night, we had nine fires in town, there were two cases of drive-by shooting - one on a motorbike, I'm not sure what vehicle the other group used, and we had four large gangs that were out in the town.
It started around about 9 pm, it was all quiet, we were on top of it by about 0100 this morning. I don't think that we are going to see a return to what was here a month ago.
PETER CAVE: You don't think we're entering a more dangerous phase now?
MICK SLATER: I think every day around here is dangerous, not so much dangerous on the streets - the security situation, I think, is well in hand - the dangers that I see are the political dangers.
I'm not a political commentator but I am concerned that every day it takes to get a resolution, then we are getting into a more dangerous political situation, and it's the politics that are driving things here.
PETER CAVE: Does the fact that the former Prime Minister faces prosecutors on Friday present a security problem for you?
MICK SLATER: I'm not aware that the former Prime Minister is going to face prosecutors on Friday. I really am relying on people like yourself...
PETER CAVE: ... well, that's what the prosecutors told us yesterday.
MICK SLATER: Well, I haven't spoken to the prosecutors. I know they have been talking for some time about the prospect of charges. I would not be surprised if on Saturday though, we are talking about what may happen on Monday.
ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: That's Australian Commander, Brigadier Mick Slater. And Peter, the commander there said that we won't be coming back to violence. He's obviously wrong.
(Sounds of protesters shouting).
PETER CAVE: Well, I'm standing probably about a hundred meters from where I spoke to him just earlier this morning to record that interview, and as I said, his soldiers are now trying to push back a mob of about a hundred people who've attacked this refugee camp which is right outside his headquarters.
They put it there for safety, the soldiers have at this stage forced them back, but they are showing no signs of dispersing and they're showing every sign of trying to go back and have another go at the refugees.
(Sounds of protesters shouting).
ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: And Peter, we can hear what's happening in the background. Can you just describe, is this violence getting worse as we speak?
PETER CAVE: As we speak, the soldiers are trying to push this mob back. They've pushed them probably 15 meters back from the edge of the refugee camp, but the group are still trying to get through.
The soldiers are remaining fairly calm, they haven't got their weapons drawn, they haven't got batons drawn, they just are pushing them back with gestures and words at the moment. But it was a very nasty incident. There have been similar incidents in the Kamoro area down near the bridge there.
There have been similar incidents in the middle of town and also out near the airport where there's another refugee camp. Most of these people in refugee camps now are from the east and they've become a target of these mobs because of what Mr Alkatiri said on television last night.
ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: And Peter, is there any sign that perhaps the refugees will have to be evacuated?
PETER CAVE: Not at this stage, it hasn't reached that stage yet. This... as I said, we've got about a hundred people here, there were perhaps two or three hundred elsewhere, but as you heard Brigadier Slater say earlier, he's preparing to let a large group of protesters, maybe three or four thousand, in from (inaudible).
If they come in and the numbers of these people swell and they don't, as Brigadier Slater hopes, remain peaceful, it could be a very nasty situation.
ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: Peter Cave in Dili, thank you.
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